THE GOLDEN YEARS OF IRISH ROW

Brendan T Gillespie (00:02)
Working around the clock, maintaining our professional hours plus relaxing a relaxation happy hour at four o'clock in the morning just wasn't really too conducive to family life.

Tom the producer (00:13)
Or anything.

Brendan T Gillespie (00:16)
You laugh.

Tom the producer (00:19)
man, good well you sound good. Good to hear ya. this has been this has been hilarious so far, just re randomly just calling people.

Brendan T Gillespie (00:29)
Yeah, so you got I see you got in touch with Patty. I'm surprised you only got ten minutes out of him. You know what it was? You talked about you didn't talk about Patty. You talked about the bar that he started at. You could have got Patty for at least two hours and thirty five minutes if he was talking about himself. dude.

Tom the producer (00:49)
Dude,

dude. You don't you don't think I'm going back to that well? You're Okay. That guy's, yeah, forget it. I I'm gonna I'm gonna milk him for stories. He's he's fantastic, as you as you well know. I'm also probably gonna reach out to or I've been exchanging messages with Ben Pryor, who's got a new establishment, which is kind of cool.

Brendan T Gillespie (01:18)
And it's kinda cool too because it's like it's it's an original throwback to like r a real Irish pub, which is not so much what we see anymore today, you know? it's all about

Tom the producer (01:32)
Hang

on, real quick then, elaborate on that. So dig into that, because that's like perfect color for, you know, because I mean I mean like not just the Barney conversation, which I think is great, and the Nag's head, which is legendary, but like that whole first street scene was pretty pretty you just I don't even know how to but for a minute, man, that was like Irish Road was bananas. And there was like there was like

Real vibes. Yeah, break it down. Yeah.

Brendan T Gillespie (02:05)
So there's reason for it, okay? It all spawns back to what an Irish pub is in the old country, okay, and then what it was to Irish immigrants and Irish communities in the United States. Okay. So for Irish immigrants coming to the US in the sixties, seventies, and eighties, there was always an Irish pub in most big cities.

And then most bigger suburbs. Okay. And each one of those places was an outpost for Irish immigrants and then Irish immigrants, cousins in America, and also their friend groups. And that's where they would go and cash their checks every Friday, spend half of their paychecks, okay, and then do it again the following week. But what it did was it established

A social framework between the bar patrons and the bar staff. So it wasn't just a place to go like at a fucking airport bar where you fucking do an iPad order and the fucking goddamn waiter comes out and throws your drink and you never see him again. It's a complete customer experience because it's it's a vibe, you know, and the tipping structure that has been established.

fostered good bartenders into making their night special because they would develop their own set of regulars. And that person knew that like, you know, like Tom Ritter knew Brendan was working on a Wednesday and Tom Maloney was playing that night. I know I'm gonna have a great night. I'm going in there that Wednesday. Well the if I could X factor Tom Ritter times 25 on my Wednesday nights, I knew I'm walking out of there between five and seven hundred bucks that night.

You know, so it it it was a it it was a blend of that business model still being on the forefront, you know. and just like that community vibe was special, you know, it was great. And it wasn't it wasn't just a one way street, like a capitalist street where it was just like you know, the bartender's doing this to make money. We enjoyed the friends that we made, and a lot of them became lifelong friendships, you know.

And it was s it was a circle of it was a it was like what the pub culture is meant to be, besides pseudo alcoholism. Okay. It was also it was a very, very positive human experience for everybody that was involved. You know, it really was. And I was fortunate that I grew up in that business. My dad had five or six Irish pubs by the time he met my mom.

in the Bronx back in the eighties and seventies. And so when I grew up, I grew up in the business. And you know, I did my normal thing, I did college, did everything like that. And then, you know, I had a couple of of left hand turns on my career path. And I landed back in the bar business because I had a background in it. And I was just fortunate that First Street at that time, when I came on board at McSwiggins, it had burnt down in two thousand and six, two thousand seven.

And Aiden rebuilt it extremely quickly. He had a vision. And he already he had it ha he already had it in place for 10 years. So he had a huge following. Okay. So he had the regular business during the week, during happy hour, a little bit later than happy hour. But then McSwiggins also had a special niche from eleven o'clock till three o'clock in the morning on the weekends for like a rite of passage for all the bridge and tunnel crowd, or at least I should say for all the

New Jersey transit train connection towns in New Jersey. Like to this day, it's a rite of passage to go to McSwiggins, even today, on weekends. You know, it's a special type of vibe for for college age kids and post college age kids, you know? So First Street, you had all the staff who were lucky enough to get a job there, who appreciated it. And then you had clicks of staff, you know. I knew this person at that bar, I knew you know, we all made friends through the years, we all traded, you know.

stories, we go in to see each other after work and it and it became this this great vibe. Like it was awesome. It was awesome. So my tenure there was from I was the age of 30 till I think I was 40, 10 years. and I it was great. Loved every second of it, you know? And Yeah it was awesome. It was awesome. But nowada nowadays it's very difficult to find that kind of environment of regular business.

And I can say for a fact, I haven't been there to go to Ben's place yet. I will, but Ben will always deliver that product because Ben is an old school bartender and understands the game. The drinks out.

Tom the producer (07:09)
Not only that, but just his pedigree. Like you can't if you know if you know the Wilton house and then you know this guy puts the word dive in the subtitle of his next bar, you know this this guy's got a PhD in dive. The Wilton House, two blocks from the path, and you're and there it's yeah, it's ten minutes out of Midtown Manhattan and it's the place slinging

You know, yeah, a couple dollar blue ribbons.

Brendan T Gillespie (07:42)
Sure, but also think of his pedigree prior to d to to the Wilton House. He was in the Dubliner from two thousand eight to two thousand twelve. And then he was you know, in the bar business with Cormac in White Plains. They had their own place for a number of years, did very well. That's right. you know, so he's an operator and he's you know, he's old school. He's you know he knows he knows the game inside now, you know. And so that place and he's got Jenny. Jenny has been at

Shannon for years and she's a sweetheart and she, you know, she's one of the best bartenders and and people out there, you know? And he's got her. So they're they've got a formula for success over there, you know.

Tom the producer (08:22)
Yeah, that's funny. Man, Shannon was actually you were right about Wednesday nights. I would always come over and visit you and Tom Maloney, but it it was actually me cheating on the Shannon because I was usually hosting an open mic and somebody usually had the mic and I would just run out the door and run and run and run next door and order a Guinness and jump on a

Like an an African drum with Tom Maloney playing the Who for twelve minutes and and then run back to the Shannon where I still had a Guinness waiting.

Brendan T Gillespie (09:01)
I mean that's that's maximizing your your night out for sure, you know.

Tom the producer (09:05)
man, what a scene. Wow, yeah. And also the reason like that I couldn't like like corporate positions were a real struggle for a decade or so. Yeah, funny it's I'm glad we mentioned Ben. I'm really excited to talk to him. We're gonna do I wanna do get as much about his bar and then as much as he has to say about First Street and then anything I can collect on Barney and Nag's head, I wanna throw into that Nag's head

sort of playlist. Do you did were you a regular there at all? I mean, you had to have had exposure to Barney because and the other person on my list, I'm dying to reach out to Aiden. Aiden's the perfect person to talk to about First Street I mean he's like the other godfather of First Street is f like him and Barney and I only 'cause I didn't know everybody else in the back rooms and kitchens, but him and Barney were kinda like the Mount Rushmore of First Street Irish to

Brendan T Gillespie (10:01)
Yes, but don't forget Mulligans and Paul Donald

Tom the producer (10:05)
That's exact that's what I was gonna lead you to anyway. I can't humiliate myself and pretend like like they don't exist for sure.

Brendan T Gillespie (10:13)
Yeah, no, he's been there he's been there since shit, since like I I wanna say he's been there since like the late nineties, you know? and he's still he's still at the top of his game. Paul Dawson, the owner of Mulligans. so he's he's definitely he's one of the last remaining operators that's that's been there for that length of time, you know?

Tom the producer (10:38)
Well, that place is a series. I was thinking about Mulligans because of the World Cup this last week or so.

Brendan T Gillespie (10:45)
Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah, and they're a famous soccer pub that happened for twenty five, thirty years, you know? Directly because of Paul Dawson.

Tom the producer (10:54)
Yeah, I've never seen anything like that place at seven in the morning on a soccer day.

Brendan T Gillespie (11:01)
Yeah, no, it's a beautiful thing.

Tom the producer (11:02)
Yeah. Yeah, Mulligan's is is is Yeah, I was thinking. So that's the other thing. Like I always considered like if First Street was like a little a version of an Irish town, or was a version of Ireland rather. Okay, so First Street's a version of Ireland. To me, I I was a small town boy. I was a Nags head boy and a weeknight McSwiggins guy. and Mulligans was like the was like

Brendan T Gillespie (11:27)
Of course.

Tom the producer (11:32)
That was that was not the little village bar. That was like the the the Irish pub in an Irish city where everybody's going bananas over soccer in front of TVs all week long, twenty four seven. It was it's totally different vibe than what Barney's putting out at the Nags.

Brendan T Gillespie (11:48)
Right, right. So I didn't spend too much time at Nag's head. just no particular reason.

Tom the producer (11:57)
It was the

wrong direction. That's not where gravity flows. Hobo can all the gravity it's like the tide flows towards Washington. So like you you never have to explain why you didn't wander away from Washington Street.

Brendan T Gillespie (12:09)
No, you know what it is? I did I did

So I did I would bounce around to bars that my friends worked at. So Ben actually worked at Northern Seoul years ago too.

Tom the producer (12:23)
Years ago, too.

Well that shits right all over my theory about not going to a about yeah, so so the tide did pull you in that that direction. You just went past my

Brendan T Gillespie (12:31)
go I would go to I would go to Northern Soul, but Nags had I I really just didn't know Barney that well. and Barney actually he had a bar where the pig and parrot is now that bar was the number one bar at the time when Aiden and Paul would have been like in their twenties. Hang it. So that would have been like mid nineties, definitely mid nineties. Now that and that was like

Tom the producer (13:01)
Miss Kitties?

Brendan T Gillespie (13:03)
I think that's what was it Miss Kitty's? Yeah, so that would been across the street from me, right?

Tom the producer (13:07)
Yeah, like where the ferryman spot. Yes. Yes.

Brendan T Gillespie (13:12)
Yes,

yes, yeah.

Tom the producer (13:16)
And Ted's He worked at Ted and Joe's and he worked at Miss Kitty's. I didn't realize he was proprietor there before the nags had that and I d holy cow, I didn't realize he was that much older than l Aiden.

Brendan T Gillespie (13:17)
Right time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I was in NagSAT a couple of times with Patty, but I just I and I knew we knew each other to say hi, but that that was that was it. I you know, I was more of an acquaintance with Barney, you know.

Tom the producer (13:44)
Well, he probably heard your last name and then r when there was no brogue, he was probably pretty disappointed.

Brendan T Gillespie (13:51)
well true Irish people know that Gillespie is an Irish name. Okay. It's off the boat. My parents are both from Ireland. and when I when I have two more two or more Guinness, the brogue unfortunately leaks out. Parish tax.

Tom the producer (14:06)
that's

that's awesome. That's probably how you that's probably how you landed your wife.

Brendan T Gillespie (14:13)
Possibly, possibly. One of hopefully one of other a multitude of positive qualities. Right.

Tom the producer (14:19)
Hey, I'm de well, I'll definitely get and I've been recording this the whole time, by the way. Yeah. So that that's my new thing is I just I realized it's so pain in the butt to try and get people to zoom and and Patty called me the and you're like, hey, you gotta talk to him for more. That was just the call to plan to have a call. And I got like Yeah. That's what ha that's what happens when you have a planning call with Patrick Walsh is you get like 15 minutes edited down to like 10 minutes of absolute

Gold. yeah. So then after that I started texting people like, hey, if you just want to call me, feel free. any anybody else I should try and get in on this list? I would I mean, I literally will just like, if if, if anybody you think would find this whole process fun and interesting, and or if you have any more stories or anything you want to get while while you have me, and or if you want to call me back anytime that something strikes you, I'll find a home for it.

Brendan T Gillespie (15:19)
Absolutely. Yeah, my thing was that it definitely First Street was a special time for everybody that was there that experienced it, you know. And the bar business the way that it is now is a totally different business than what it was back then. You know? I mean, don't get me wrong, you'll still find places that have that regular clientele that are run the the right way, which is customer service relationship oriented.

And also speed and customer service is obviously speed is a part of customer service. So like you have your regulars that come in during happy hour that you you know, that you see with them when they come in, you give them their drink, you know exactly what they're having. you're paying attention to their needs. And that's that's great. But then also too, there's a component when it you know, places like Big Swiggins where I worked, where it does get busy from eleven o'clock to two o'clock, three o'clock is the owner's bread and butter.

And you better know how to move and you better know how to bang that register, get as much money in that register as possible. And customer service is a part of it because you're gonna have regulars that also come in during those hours, totally different regulars, younger guys, younger girls. And when you can establish a couple of regulars in that environment as well, it puts you in a different level of bartender. And that was the level that we were at on First Street.

Tom the producer (16:44)
Yeah. That and then no that reminds me of that reminds me of the Wonder Boy next door. Like you would see Cormac at the back bar and that's exact that's the prototype for the situation you're describing.

Brendan T Gillespie (16:58)
Think think about if you're a customer, you're a college kid that just moved to town, you got a couple of buddies with you, you get friendly with the bartender at McSwiggins, next thing you know, you you know, the balancer recognizes you, lets you inside first. You know, you're standing eight people back from the bar, all of a sudden your bartender throws a bud light at you, knows exactly what you're drinking, every girl in the place is gonna look at you be like, Who the heck is that guy? And I just facilitated that for you. I got a customer for life. Yes. You know?

And that's that's the type that's that's the type that's the type of pedigree that you need to have in order to be successful in that environment. And when McSwiggins reopened after the fire, Aiden Aiden number one was an excellent operator. But number two, whoever hired that first crew of bartenders that season in two thousand eight, it was just magical. You had you had Patrick Walsh, Patty, you had myself, typical

plastic patty Irish American faking an Irish accent. That was personable. you had Rory who was a Hoboken, pretty much like a Hoboken icon at that point. She already had worked at like seven or eight different bars before McSwiggins. So she knew everyone in town. and then there was Queenie and then Paul Hickton who's now the owner of McSwiggins. he was also there at the start.

Tom the producer (18:00)
Remember Rory? Yes I do.

Brendan T Gillespie (18:23)
So it was like a real it was like a marriage of real raw t like excellent talent and and good business sensor maiden. It was awesome. And then you had the rest of First Street. So it was just like this this awesome run for ten years. At least the time that I was there, I was there ten years. And then you don't forget, we also had different places come in too, like one republic. Irish owned, Irish operated, different kind of a business model, more of a sports bar, nightclub y, but still

the same customer service delivery just in a different atmosphere. and now it's not it it's not there as much. There's a lot of things that definitely contributed to that. COVID, the shutdown, the lockdowns, that pretty much that pretty much like put a nail in the coffin of the business for a little while. Also the the advancement of credit cards versus cash. Yeah. Now people

were getting tint and credit cards and getting taxed on those tips versus the complete cash business. So that also lowered the incentive for bar staff to to to want to do the best that they could in terms of customer service for for their clients. So it was a combination of things that's ch definitely shifted the business. But there are still pockets of of quote unquote Irish pubs, dive bars,

Where people know you when you go in there and that's the reason that you go in there. You know, that's the primary thing.

Tom the producer (19:56)
Yeah, you're right. You're you described it perfectly in a couple sentences where like can you imagine, can you imagine a whole street where if you've been to each place a few times, a whole street full that's w bars are packed wall to wall. But if you walk in one of any of these five bars or so on this street, like you get the craziest level of hospitality always.

You catch their eye. Like you said, you could be eight people back, and all of a sudden a beer for everybody in your group lands in your hands because A, they spotted you, they know you're gonna love that. But B, guess what Brendan behind the bar just did? Brendan behind a bar just saved everybody time by being like, there's Tom and his boys. Let me get a whole pile of beer over there. That way they don't have to fight through these people, over and done with, and I'm back to serving everybody else. So you literally did the whole room a favor by being like,

There's seven drinks I can drop right now. Nobody's got to even exchange words. Like the level of not only how you make the customer feel, but how expedient that is to the overall service in the room, it's it's kind of like a cheat code in both directions.

Brendan T Gillespie (21:11)
without question. Without question. And that was, you know, that was the formula and that was what we looked for and that was how we trained our staff. and then like you had the advent of all these mixologists and all this fruit fruit bullshit. And I would go to like these conventions in Vegas and they would have these bartender competitions and I would see them up there with their concoctions and their and their, you know, all this stuff, and it takes them fifteen minutes to make a drink. And I'm like, I would have fired you after two minutes. Sorry, you're done.

You know, like that yeah, that w that works in a world where you wanna show off, okay? But in in a world where you wanna make your customers feel special and get those drinks out fast, you th yeah, there's there's definitely a place for you know, for batched mixed drinks that are high quality. But like when they tried to make bartenders into chefs, I was just like what is gonna be

Tom the producer (22:01)
Yeah, when when you when you needed a blowtorch and sh but that just you can't you can't be doing that at McSwigan's at 150 a.m.

Brendan T Gillespie (22:10)
There I there are places for it, you know, but in our world it's just doesn't make any sense. You know, it's just

Tom the producer (22:18)
didn't

know that place got busier every minute until the door locked. Like it didn't get it didn't get lighter at the end of the night. Everybody was piling off the pass train out of Manhattan, which meant AU had a destination crowd at McSwiggins anyway, from all over. If it's a weekend, you've got people coming there from all over. And if anybody bled off of McSwiggins to maybe say get back to the suburbs,

They're more than replaced by the people coming back from the city off the path train who are like, yo, let's roll through McSwiggins and get some Guinness, do some shots. I mean, you've never seen a bar put out shots li I'd I I never have. Like it every you guys I can't really describe it. Like I wish I had video of the bar in a time lapse just to count like how many drinks you guys put out in like ten minutes on a Friday or Saturday night in McSwiggins and like

Two thousand ten. I'll bet I'll bet it was like Guinness World Record type stuff. And I don't know how to really articulate it, other than the fact that you guys were so good, I would literally walk into the room and beers would show up from fifteen feet away just so other people didn't have to be bothered, you didn't have to be bothered, and I didn't have to be bothered. Like it was that genie-like.

Brendan T Gillespie (23:35)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. This is great. I love this conversation. You're bringing me back, baby.

Tom the producer (23:39)
Well good. I'm glad but I just 'cause sometimes I wonder, I'm like, boy, these were really good bartenders. It's and I re I did reach out. I was like, Wow, I've got like ten bartenders who are like I'm buddies with from Hoboken and then I thought to myself, wait, they were really good bartenders. So maybe they're not my buddies. I was like

Brendan T Gillespie (23:58)
Well no. See that that was bullshit. You had to make it authentic. It had to be real. Or else over over a period of a couple of years relationship with somebody, I think they would feel it out that this guy's just likes me for my for my cash type of deal.

Tom the producer (24:13)
Yeah, that's just my insecurity. But and and and Patrick talked about that if you listen to him talk about like that earn it hospitality thing where he was he's he's like Barney, you know, I was like Barney never bought me drinks for years. Like Barney wouldn't even think about buying you a drink until he like A really knew you. Or you just were in there or you were in there on your honeymoon. Right. But like he literally had to know you were a good person.

And he had to have a deep and abiding respect for you before he would even consider buying you a Bud Light. And and Patrick was explaining how like you have to earn your seat at a bar and how like it's a give and take and not a one-way like you're saying 10 minutes ago. Like it's a, you know, real going back to the Irish off the boat and how it was a community connection kind of thing. Like you didn't necessarily have to be Irish on the boat to feel that way on First Street. So I guess that's my insecurity is I was like.

I didn't even have the requisite paperwork and and it was that inviting even for me, but that vibe f is so genuine when the people behind the bar and the proprietors are all off the boat Irish, doing what they do kind of thing. Like it it just there was no filter between what seemed like a genuine Irish hospitality and what was going on there.

Brendan T Gillespie (25:32)
One hundred percent. One hundred percent. And then there's a million different things that we could talk about too when it comes to my experience at McSwiggins. The amount of people in that town that met their spouses at McSwiggins is a huge deal. It's incredible. The amount of the amount of people that I know that met, including myself, I met my wife. She was my she was first time I ever met her was St. Paddy's Day Parade. I was bartending and she was a customer of mine. She was the only sober person in the place. And that's how I met my wife.

And there's a I'd say I know probably at least nine other couples that met at McSwiggins and there's many more than that that I don't know, you know? It was a special place. And then people obviously have stories like that throughout a lot a lot of other places in Hoboken. But yeah, yeah, it was special. Really was special. And it still is. It's just, you know, the dynamic has changed along with everything else in the world, you know.

Tom the producer (26:27)
I hadn't even considered that, but I'll bet you're right. I'll bet that's a way longer list than you've got at your fingertips.

Brendan T Gillespie (26:34)
yeah, yeah. And then like you can extrapolate the town of Hoboken let's move off of Bixwigans, let's move off of First Street. But there's a sequence of events, life events that I've noticed through my tenure there, where you had, you know, post college grads, a bunch of friends would get together and rent an apartment and they would stay in town. A lot of times they would meet a girl and you know, they they the next step was they would move in together. They'd live in town for a little while. The next step they'd get engaged, the next step

they'd move to a suburb. They moved to Montclair. They moved to the summit or they moved to Bergen County. And, you know, that was the progression. And then you would get a new influx every year of new post college grads. And then you would see them grow up if you stayed in town long enough and maintained relationship with them long enough. And it's a pretty awesome thing to see. And it developed over time. And I'm one of them too. We we ended up moving to the suburbs. We moved to Caldwell. I eventually got into the construction business and

Believe it or not, I built my business off of most of the relationships that I made in Hoboken from the time I was there. You know? And there's this there's this awesome diaspora of people that go and it even goes New York City, Hoboken suburbs. There's, you know, it's this it's this real cool progression that I've noticed from my experience there, you know? an awesome thing. Really cool thing. And and I know that still exists. That's still happening.

Tom the producer (28:03)
For sure. Yeah, the people you're talking about are are like network minded to begin with and hospitality minded. So they're connecting is like the thing. I'm gonna let you go. I definitely this is beautiful, and I think I'm probably gonna tap reach back out to you because there's there's more. There's there's sure there's gold. Absolutely, brother. Thank you so and so shoot, what was I gonna say? Awesome.

Brendan T Gillespie (28:30)
If you wanna if you wanna publish this or edit this or do whatever you wanna do, you got full permission.

Tom the producer (28:35)
And then what's where's where should I go find a an good old McSwiggins picture of you?

Brendan T Gillespie (28:42)
I'll send you some stuff and you can filter through what you want.

Tom the producer (28:45)
What's your email address? Or or I'll no, I'll take I'll text you my email or or whatever. I've got you on Instagram or something.

Brendan T Gillespie (28:53)
Yeah, this is my cell phone, so just save this number.

shit.

Tom the producer (29:08)
Okay, then I'll what I'll do is I'll send you a drum box range.

Brendan T Gillespie (29:12)
Yes, I mean.

Tom the producer (29:28)
Phoenix Phoenix bombs at McSwiggins. man, so good to talk to you. You can't believe how much fun I'm having. it's like a freaking time warp this week. For a guy like me to go from the only thing that's weird about it is it's a sober time warp. Like I've probably never spoken to you and Patty in succession and not been drunk.

Brendan T Gillespie (29:52)
Okay. All right. Time moves on, bro. All right.

Tom the producer (29:55)
All right.

All right. Thank you so much, Brandon. Good to hear from you, man. All right. You too, Tom. I will talk to you soon. Thank you.

Brendan T Gillespie (30:02)
All right, bye.